Posts by Bungi Bill

20

1975, generation change and New Light - the WTBTS position

by Nickolas in

the words below are taken from the latest version of the watchtower bible and tract society's history book.

it is a response i have received from a jehovah's witness to my questions about how the watchtower bible and tract society represented the year 1975 and recent changes in generation teaching.

beyond saying there are some interesting insights into the society's position on new light, i will withhold comment until i get some feedback from the board.. the bible itself says: do not interpretations belong to god?

Bungi Bill

The expression "If you can't Blind with Science, then try Baffling with Bull#*%t " comes to mind after reading their explanation of failed prophecy.

The WTS's idea of "New Light" is this:

- just a story they have had to concoct only after a promised date has come and gone;

- and it becomes obvious to even the dimmest of dimwits that the WTS was completely wrong.

(1914, 1915, ,1918, 1925, 1975; The Generation that saw the Beginning of the Time of The End, etc, etc, etc)

- then, they can always use Psalm 43:3 as the Catch-All scripture to cover their #%s.

(Never mind all the lives they have harmed in the process - people's welfare was never high up on the Watchtower Society's priority list).

This was actually the "final straw" for me in breaking with the JWs.

I felt that I was increasingly having to try and defend the indefensible

i.e. Failed Prophecy (not just once, either - repeated failure of prophecy) and then inventing a story after the event, which people were supposed to believe as being "New Light."

Bill.

PS: Most bible scholars - i.e. proper scholars (not the WTS psuedo kind) - interpret Psalm 43.3 quite differently to what N.H. Knorr, F.W. Franz & Co. did. They would argue strongly that this bible verse refers to an individual's spiritual development.

- not the Watchtower Society's attempts to talk itself out of the consequences of having been caught out lying!

33

Is it wrong of me to think of the GB, the Writing Department, Bethelites, Pioneers, as moochers, and leeching bloodsuckers?

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

i'm exhausted right now.

it's been a very long day.

both physically, and mentally, althought the latter otweighted the former by tons.

Bungi Bill

When I was a young married man, and the C.O. came around trying to kick our backsides into doing more "in the service", I would have tended to agree with you. Then , during the recession of the early 1990s, when we were all broke, and they wanted our money to build an assembly hall, I woiuld have upheld you all the way!

However, in the cold light of day as it is to me right now, I go along with Grandma Jones:

- i.e. these poor mugs are just another class of victims!

Bill.

P.S: Reality hits hard when you have a young family to support - and that is where I think the COs, DOs and GB are removed from reality.

42

Why did the WTBS endorse 1975?

by jay88 in

is it not true that the leaders knew that it was a blatant lie when the 1975 teaching was propagated in the 60's?.

Bungi Bill

The scary thing about that is the hearing voices is a classic symptom of schizophrenia:

(No to mention the fact that much of the drivel he spouted would be fitting of a schizophrenia sufferer!)

Sad enough under normal circumstances :

- outright disasterous, though, when so many believed him (and many deluded fools still do).

Bill.

42

Is the World really getting worse?

by Nickolas in

a fundamental platform of the watchtower bible and tract society, from which its fearsome prognostications are launched, is the inexorable deterioration of the world.

the world is becoming a less and less hospitable place in which to live.

it seems with news of every earthquake, every natural catastrophe, every epidemic, every atrocity, and every disaster manmade or otherwise, there is the inevitable shaking of the finger and stern proclamation, "see?

Bungi Bill

Schnell, in his For Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave, probably summed it up correctly when he stated that the WTS took advantage of the mass upheaval that followed WWI in Europe . This is the origin of the WTS's "things are getting worse and worse" dirge.

(As someone has already noted on this thread, it is as if events only in Europe count for anything, when the WTS raises this issue!)

Bill.

42

Why did the WTBS endorse 1975?

by jay88 in

is it not true that the leaders knew that it was a blatant lie when the 1975 teaching was propagated in the 60's?.

Bungi Bill

I am not aware of any recording having been made of his mid-1974 speech. Perhaps others may know more about this?

Bill.

42

Why did the WTBS endorse 1975?

by jay88 in

is it not true that the leaders knew that it was a blatant lie when the 1975 teaching was propagated in the 60's?.

Bungi Bill

FW Franz was a little less than truthful in his Feb 10, 1975 public talk - when he quoted what the WTS 1966 book Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God said about 1975. He told the religious editor of a local newspaper that this publication gave 1975 as the 6000th annivarsary of human creation - nothing more, nothing less. In fact, though, this book went a little further than that, and left hanging there the idea that 1975 would see the end. (Certainly, that is the conclusion arrived at by everyone I knew who read it). Young Frederick carefully edited that fact from the editor!

His Feb 10, 1975 speech was somewhat of a back-pedal about the date:

- He had earlier given a 1975 pep-talk in mid 1974. Those that had heard both these speeches about WT chronology were unanimous that in his February 1975 talk, he was saying the opposite of what he had said six months before. (Of course, he still concluded with the standard JW fare "the time is short, out there and at 'em, steer clear of college etc, etc, etc - what the WTS were saying before, during, and after 1975; and on forever for that matter!)

As MarcusScriptus notes, the spoken word (Circuit Overseers talks, Circuit and District Assemblies) well and truly fanned the flames of what had already been written. Do any of you remember the talk given by the District Overseer in late 1974, in which he outright said to the audience "and we still stand by our date of 1975" - to which everybody loudly applauded.

It worked, too! In the years since, I have heard many JWs and ex-JWs claim that they never believed 1975 would be the year of Armegeddon. However, during those years leading up to it , I never heard anyoneexpress any doubts at all about 1975.

All this being said, the bloody deluded fool probably did believe his own propaganda about 1975. Certainly, the other members of the GB seem to have swallowed it (including Raymond Franz, by his own admission in COC).

My thoughts and memories of what happened!

Bill.

(PS: I began reading their literature in 1966, began a "bible study" with them in 1969, and was baptised in 1972. all the JWs I knew could not stop talking about 1975).

49

time=360 days 7-times=2520 days 2520 days=2520(365 day per year)years?

by still_in74 in

i have to give credit to sleepy for alerting me to this little discrepancy.

i cant believe i have never clued into the duality of freddies logic.

nevermind the jumping all over the bible between ot & nt to get his math together..... *** pe chap.

Bungi Bill

William Miller came up with the date 1844 for Christ's Second Coming.

When that failed to happen, he seems to have faded completely off the radar!

Bill.

49

time=360 days 7-times=2520 days 2520 days=2520(365 day per year)years?

by still_in74 in

i have to give credit to sleepy for alerting me to this little discrepancy.

i cant believe i have never clued into the duality of freddies logic.

nevermind the jumping all over the bible between ot & nt to get his math together..... *** pe chap.

Bungi Bill

This sounds like some more of Fred Franz's creative accounting:

- trying to make the "evidence" fit after the event, and then claiming special insight by the WTS for having done so!

(The WTS are terrors for doing this, particularly in regard to the bible book of Revelation. Opening remarks in their publication - "Revelation - its Great Climax near at Hand" as good as admit this).

In his Crisis of Conscience, Raymond Franz cites N.H. Knorr as once describing 1914 as "something we got from the Seventh Day Adventists." (Also, that he "hoped we were right" - this, a pivotal date to the JWs, no less!). If that is correct, then the 1914 bit would have predated F.W. Franz, as it was early in C.T. Russell's time that they had some affiliation with the Seventh Day Adventists.

Does anybody have any further details about how they originallycame to form this crackpot idea in the first place?

(Incidentally, I can recall a conversation onetime with a Christedelpian, who said that their church once believed the bible's "Times of the Gentiles" to have ended in the year 1914:

- They held that view up until the year 1948, when the modern state of Israel was formed.)

Bill.

182

Please share a quote that you enjoy...

by nvrgnbk in

jw
friends

nothing contributes so much to tranquilize the mind as a steady purpose--.

a point on which the soul may fix its intellectual eye.. mary shelley.

Bungi Bill

1) MURPHY'S LAW No.7:

" Anything that can go wrong will go wrong."

( A very important priciple, that should be remembered when designing anything).

2) ITS ANTIDOTE, K.I.S.S.

"Keep It Simple, Stupid."

3) THE DESIGN ENGINEER'S K.P.I.s:

(i) Make things extremely difficult for the installation crew. (20%)

(ii) Make things totally impossible for the service technicians (80%)

Bill.

PS: I am a service technician!

33

Jehovahs Witnesses taught that Armageddon would occur in 1914,1915,1918,1921,1925,1932,1941 and 1975. Who is the father

by Little Imp in

jw
friends

i saw a very long thread on answerbag answering the above question in which there are several jws responding and denyng vehemently what is said in the question.

in some places being quite rude to people.

the dialogue highlighted yellow is me, the text highlighted blue is someone who is agreeing that the jws did preach this.

Bungi Bill

"Nothing to do with the organisation" and only a "very personal decision made with the influence of ones parents."

Talk about denial!

As seen in the transcript above by Nickolas, Fred Franz's Feb 10 1975 speech approached its climax with a specific warning about "going to college for a few years."

The only reason I ended up not going to university was because of interention from the elders;

- they still had some pull over my father at that stage, and got it stopped.

(Unfortunately, this came up 12 months before my father told the JWs to proceed to the "far queue.")

That sure was a "personal decision" all-right!

Bill.